DIRECT TALK(VISION VIBES)

Draft transcript

Chloe Potter / Host:

I'm Chloe Potter and this is Vision Vibes - the podcast that hopes to give you inspiration and tools to live a more satisfying life.

This story was originally broadcast on television as part of the interview series Direct Talk. If you enjoy listening, you can head to the NHK WORLD website to watch. You'll find interviews with people from all walks of life.

I don't know about you, but I always enjoy discovering a job that I never knew existed. Today's guest has one of those conversation-starting jobs.

Jean Franzblau is an intimacy coordinator. It's a new role that emerged in the film industry in the wake of the me-too movement. Jean works on film sets to make sure that actors involved in sex scenes are properly represented and protected, no matter how intimidating the circumstances, no matter how famous the colleagues. The role recognizes that people are not always able to say what they feel and describe what they need. Sometimes they need an advocate. Someone to speak on their behalf, someone to protect them and uphold their rights. This is particularly true if there is a hierarchy or a power imbalance at play.

Listening to Jean made me think of all the many generations of actors who had to cope at work without this protection and who may have been left troubled or traumatized by a lot of what they were asked to do. I wonder what you will make of it.

Enjoy listening to Jean. Here is narrator Hana Barnes. I'll meet you on the other side.

Hana Barnes / Narrator:

In Hollywood, the me-too movement and other organizations continue the fight against sexual harassment and assault.

In the film and television industry, sometimes depictions of sex or violence are required.

Intimacy coordinators, who ensure actors are comfortable when participating in scenes with nudity or sex, have become essential on set.

A profession only created a few years ago, movie studios and media production companies now widely adopt the service

A front runner in the field, Jean Franzblau is one of about 40 active professionals.

We asked Franzblau why intimacy coordinators are needed and what role they play.

Jean Franzblau:

My role represents a disruptive shift in entertainment, and a good one. One that's been long needed. It acknowledges the fact that actor's wellness matters, and that these hyper-exposed scenes deserve to be handled with care. It is a time of change for the better, and it's really, it's difficult to change an industry this way. It's very difficult. Um, but there's something powerful about being part of it, being right there when it was happening. And that is what I get to do.

Hana Barnes / Narrator:

It starts with exchanging opinions with all the parties.

Jean Franzblau:

First thing I want you to know is that our conversation is going to be confidential. And at the very end of our talk, we'll...I'll go over any points that feel important for us to revisit.

Hana Barnes / Narrator:

Franzblau takes notes during meetings with actors to relay to production staff.

Jean Franzblau:

My work begins with the story. I read the script, and then I analyze the script to pick out all the scenes that I would recommend that an intimacy coordinator be present.

But my job in reading those scenes is to understand better how, the context of the scenes and how they rest in the entire story. Now, I have a conversation with the director, or if it's a TV show, the showrunner, the writer. So, there might be a team of people that I have a meeting with. And I ask them very specific questions. The script might say, they make out. That means something very different to some people versus others. Some people would think that's a kiss. Somebody else thinks that would mean all kinds of hand motions. Some people would think that means grinding. I mean, there's so many things that that could be. So, it's my job to ask the creative team, "What exactly do you mean? Do you mean this or do you mean this? If you want this, how intense between one and 10 would this be?"

And, and some directors are prepared for that and others aren't really as comfortable making those decisions ahead of time. They like to feel for it in the moment. The problem is like, think about it for a moment that if you were directing a stunt. You wouldn't say to the actor, when you jump off that cliff, just sort of feel it out. The, the actor needs to know the techniques for landing safely. So, consider it, I will ask every actor and every director and every production to consider that it's like a knife fight. You do not play it by ear. You need to know what's going to happen specifically. So, everyone stays safe.

I must be there for rehearsal, and I must be there for shooting on set.

At first it was like, I was a bit of a burden being present, but what many directors don't realize is that we care about the scenes being real and looking good, and we have skills to help with that. And so, one time I'm like, "Ooh, I have an idea for the director I wonder if I should say it."

And there was like, we were in between shots and like, okay. I'm like, there's a director. There they come. And I'm like, "Hi, I know we just met today. But, um, I'm wondering if such and such, such and such," he's like, "That's a good idea." "Yes!" And from that point on like the director and I were tight because he, he realized for the first time that I care about his job, I'm not an, I'm not an obstacle. I wanna be a solution, I wanna help. And it was fun.

Hana Barnes / Narrator:

An agreement to include sexual scenes or nudity is made in advance between the actors and a production company.

So why do we need an intimacy coordinator on set?

Jean Franzblau:

There's pressure and power. The pressure is money and time. We have a deadline, we have a show to put up.

A well-meaning director could have a vision, a creative vision in their mind. And when they're on set and they're working with the actors, they have so many things to think about. They're thinking about their director of photography and the lighting. And they're thinking about the light. There's so much for a director to consider. Now we have two actors who are doing very vulnerable work, simulated sex, or kissing. It's awkward. Now the director might say, do it again, do it a third time. This time do it with, with tongues, you know, and I have to, an intimacy coordinator needs to be present to say, "Ah, I need to stop. We've already discussed. There are no, there will be no tongue kissing in this scene. Uh, we've already discussed that." Now the details of that might be that one actor said "I'm not comfortable." Another actor might have said, "Oh, it's okay. I don't mind." But if one actor says, "No," it's no, but the director who's thinking about so many things might forget that detail and just be like, "Okay, go do it." And I have to go, "Oh," just. It's in my mind. I have the notes.

Also, a director might say, "Ooh, um, please remove your skirt. Uh, I would be, let's get that shot without a skirt." "Mm, wait a minute. Wait a minute. According to the document that has been signed, uh, there's no below-the-waist nudity." On the set or in the heat of the moment, it's easy to forget all of the details of the boundaries that different people have. It's my job to keep them all in mind and to be that voice. Because when somebody is, let's say nude, it's extremely vulnerable. Also, if that actor is working with a famous director, or if that actor is a day player. They're just coming on set for one day and they're working with a Hollywood multimillion-dollar A-list actor doing one scene.

It's really tough to advocate for one's boundaries to go, "Oh, remember I said, no kissing, no tongue kissing" or whatever. It's in the heat of the moment. They just wanna do a good job and they don't wanna be considered a problem. So, I come in and make those reminders. Here's what it is. Let me remind everybody what it is. Uh, let's reset. Let's take a moment to, uh, remember what the boundaries are and, and, you know, stuff like that. So, I have to be that voice. It takes, it's easier for me than it is for the actor sometimes.

Hana Barnes / Narrator:

Jean Franzblau was born and raised in Florida.

She moved to Los Angeles to attend UCLA to study mass communication and was an actor and dancer.

She educated herself about sexuality and began a path to healing after being sexually assaulted by a boyfriend.

She became interested in the work of an intimacy coordinator and took a course. Currently, she is active in Hollywood blockbuster movies and theater.

Jean Franzblau:

Communication was a, you know, a particular passion of mine. Helping people to understand each other, conflict resolution, all that kind of stuff. I also had written and produced in, you know, some things, right. So, I'm really interested in and have a passion for, for entertainment, but in my personal life, you know, I was in a relationship where I experienced a sexual assault, the most common kind, which was, uh, which is, uh, with a partner.

And so, at the time, um, as with many people who experience sexual assault, we don't actually have the words for it. I felt very shattered. Um, I felt like I would never have a healthy relationship again. And I, it was deeply, deeply troubling. I really felt like I was probably broken. And so, um, I did a lot to help myself to grow from therapy to all the different ways in which people, uh, build up and strengthen self again after, after injury.

And, and so I care very deeply about consent. I care deeply that my boundaries are honored. And frankly, I think that sometimes when we have our own violation, then we become bulldogs and we want to make sure that other people are protected too. So, I care very much. It's still really important to me, these topics of consent, of respect, of honoring.

Hana Barnes / Narrator:

Franzblau believes in the value of consent.

How does she help actors with their work?

Jean Franzblau:

One time I was working with an actor. And, and the question was, are you comfortable with a scene where you're touched here, then here, then here, then here, and then kissing the whole time. And the actor said, "That's a lot. I think I'll know on the day." And I thought about it. So the, the person said, no, they didn't say no. They said that's a lot. I think I'll know on the day that is a postponement of an answer. And what a, a good communicator knows is that saying no, and I think this is a cultural thing that many different cultures understand, is that saying no is not acceptable, but saying, um, "I'll think about it." is a way of saying no.

So, I just assumed that it was no, but I found out what, where, like I said, how about, what may I ask you a couple more details? And I found, I, I, I noticed they leaned forward, that they seem more enthusiastic about other aspects of the scene. So, I could go to the director and say, "I believe we have a strong yes for this and this, and a no for this, for this, like sequence you were hoping for." And the director's like, "Hmm, okay. I, I think I know a way to shoot that." And we decided to shoot where, um, there was no shot longer than 10 seconds. And so, the director and I were at the monitor which was just an iPad, and I had my phone and a stopwatch. And the actor says action. And I go, "Oop," and then, and then, uh, after 10 seconds, I tap that the director on the shoulder and the director says, "Cut." And as a team, we are coordinating our efforts to get the art made, to get the scene shot, with an actor who feels totally at ease and respected. It was so cool. And that's how we do it. The audience will have no idea of all those, behind-the-scenes things, but the actor might look at that film in the future and go, I remember feeling safe that day.

Hana Barnes / Narrator:

Kissing scenes are often important to a storyline.

Franzblau approaches a kissing scene like dance choreography.

Jean Franzblau:

I actually created a kiss workshop with the help. Um, I've had, I've had classes on how to do such a thing and I, you know, added my own version of it, but I created a workshop to help actors to talk about kissing. And this is part of our job is like how long is the kiss between 1 and 10? How is intense as the kiss, is it a romantic kiss or like a passionate kiss, open mouth, closed mouth, tongue no tongue, like all those details, choreographed. Head tilted to the left, tilted to the right, right? So many details.

So, when one can look at the character and how that character would kiss a first kiss or how that character would see, um, a body for the first time. This could be really a wonderful moment for the character through the intimate scene. And, and that's something that often we as intimacy coordinators have opinions about, how to make it richer.

Um, I once worked with an actor where we were talking about kissing and I said, "The approach that we're gonna take is as if it's a dance."  And they were like, "Oh, okay, I'm a dancer. I can do that." And it just made them feel so much more calm.

Hana Barnes / Narrator:

We asked Franzblau to write something that holds meaning for her.

She wrote, "Sometimes the most courageous thing we can do is tell the truth."

Jean Franzblau:

The culture trains us to hide the truth a lot of the time. So that we don't make waves. And yet, telling the truth, being honest, um, can be the most important thing for relationships. I would feel more relaxed in the world if I could tell the truth more often. I appreciate when people can tell me the truth. About telling the truth with respect and kindness but that would be my preference. But yeah, truth-telling.

Chloe Potter / Host:

The kind of passive, subtle intimidation, dismissal.. or outright bullying that happened for generations on film sets happens all the time in workplaces and social situations all over the world. When one person belittles another, or one person is not seen or heard or respected. It's happened to all of us at some point in our lives I'm sure.

It's refreshing that people like Jean are starting to change that culture in the film industry. Hopefully upholding peoples' right to decide what they are and are not willing to do or to accept is a trend that will continue to expand so that mistreatment of people both obvious and subtle, can start to be exposed, brought into the light and challenged.

Author and Professor Brene Brown's brilliant work on boundaries sums it up. She says: "Boundaries are not fake walls, they are not separation or division. They are a respect for what is okay and what is not okay."

That's it for today's episode. Thank you for listening. You can find the transcript, as well as our other stories, on the NHK WORLD website. I'm Chloe Potter, join us next time for more mind-expanding insights from inspiring people on Vision Vibes.