Afghan Women's Rights Under Taliban Rule: Zahra Joya / Journalist and Founder of Rukhshana Media

Hello and welcome to DEEPER LOOK from New York.

I'm Del Irani, it's great to have your company.

On 15 August 2021, the Islamic group, the Taliban entered Afghanistan's capital city, Kabul and took control of the country - after nearly 20 years of U.S occupation.

Since then, human rights violations against women and girls have mounted steadily.

The Taliban has banned girls from attending school past the sixth grade and barred most women from working.

Furthermore, the Taliban has decreed that women must cover their faces in public and instructed them to remain in their homes.

Now Despite being stripped of their rights and facing the constant threat of violence, women in Afghanistan are quietly fighting back.

Joining me now to talk more about this is Zahra Joya.

She's a journalist from Afghanistan, who reported on violence against women in the region, under the Taliban that came back to power in August 2021.

She's based in London where she lives in exile, and was named one of Time Magazine's women of the year last year.

Welcome to the program.

Zarah Joya, great to have you with us.

Thank you so much for having me.

So, Zahra, I mentioned, you're currently based in London, but I know that you're very much still reporting on stories in Afghanistan, and you definitely have very strong contacts over there.

Can you describe for us what is the current situation for women in Afghanistan?

Unfortunately, the situation is devastating.

It is absolutely dire.

And the situation is, especially for women and girls, it's very, very the worst.

And the women and girls, they are prisoners at home.

So, it is almost two years that they have they don't have even their basic rights.

So, they are not allowed to get education, work and, you know, even the free movement.

What is the current situation for women's education in Afghanistan?

So, you know, officially, the Taliban banned women from school in our city educational centers, so there is nothing thing exists officially, and publicly.

But in secret, there were lots of brave women who are working very hard.

They have a lot of secret schools in the cities and the remote areas.

They are teaching the other girls and they have competitions, reading competitions.

you know, like, they are still fighting.

It's a kind of fight and struggling for their fundamental rights.

So they are, we have a lot of secret schools and courses and the women, they are active, they are working, and they are fighting for that.

Now, Zahra I know that, you know, you run an all-female led news organization called Rukhshana Media, and so you get a lot of stories from your colleagues, all of them who are women,

and they're in Afghanistan, they're reporting on all of this.

Tell us just how difficult is it for you?

You know, when you hear their stories, and what type of stories you're hearing, can you give us some examples?

Well, as, you know, like Afghanistan is a patriarchal society and a traditional country.

So, being a woman in Afghanistan, it's not easy and not at this time, especially.

But when I receive every day, you know, we're working, we received lots of stories.

The most of the stories, very, very painful.

So, it is not only about people, stories, of women's stories, it's about the losing of our rights, our own rights.

So, my colleagues, they are in hiding.

And they are working.

And they're reporting.

So that, absolutely, it shows their drive, their courage, and their bravery.

And I'm sure that my colleagues and other journalists who are working in the ground, they are very brave, and they are they are very strong.

So, Zahra that you lived under the Taliban first rule until 2001.

So, you've actually experienced what it is to live under the Taliban.

And then you experience 20 years of living under the US rule.

So, you've kind of had the experience of both worlds.

First, just tell us what was it like what was life like under the Taliban before 2001.

So, at that time, I was a child, and you know, life for women and girls was absolutely difficult.

So, for me as a child, and as a girl, I wasn't allowed to go to school.

So, I dressed as a boy.

And I went, I changed my style life [lifestyle].

And then I went to school.

It wasn't possible without my family's support.

So, when I was a child, so my parents, they recognized my desire, and my passions for education, and they accepted that.

Yeah, you can go to school.

And it was difficult for me to change for a long time your identity.

But, yeah, but then meantime, my other friends and childhood friends, they weren't allowed to go to school.

So, they, because they were they were girls, and they had to stay at home.

And so then how old were you when the US came in 2001?

And, and tell us about, you know, the next 20 years or so, growing up, when the US came?

How did your life change?

I think I was 13 years old.

So, when after the 9.11.

So that when the school doors were opened for girls, across the country.

So, all the girls in our village and other villages, they were able to go to school.

And that time my, you know, I was a little bit grown up.

And then my grandfather asked me to change your cloths because you're a girl.

You're not boy.

And then my father brought me very beautiful clothes from Kabul.

So, because we lived in a remote area and village in the Bamyan provinces.

So, and we decided to change again my life, my identity.

So, and then after that, it was very good, because thousands of girls in our area, Waras district, they were able to go to school.

So, it was a very, very happiness among girls.

It was it was very nice.

So, what was it like I mean, in terms of the contrast to what's happening now, to be a young woman in Afghanistan, to be able to work.

Where many other women grabbing this opportunity and enjoying these freedoms?

Yeah, I mean, the women after the 2001 so, they were allowed to do everything that they want.

However, it was not easy.

As I mentioned before that Afghanistan is a patriarchal society, there is a lot of unknown writing laws against women.

But the women in Afghanistan, they started their fights for their fundamental rights from their houses.

So, they started fighting from among the families, and they moved it on to the society.

So, they opened their ways to university to work, to education.

So, in the past 20 years, we've had thousands of teachers, female teachers, students, and schools and universities, and different parts of society.

It was absolutely a progressive moment for even Afghanistan history but unfortunately, it was very short.

It was it was very short. Yeah.

The US pulled out in 2021.

And tell us about what happened when the US pulled out.

What were the circumstances under which you and your family were forced to flee Afghanistan?

Oh, well, it was absolutely chaos.

it was very, very fear among people.

So obviously, the Taliban when they came and took power, so it was so difficult to stay with, and living with them in the country.

So, I decided to leave Afghanistan for a time until hopefully we will find freedom again in Afghanistan.

But on that time, the first time of first day the Taliban came we lost our freedoms, we lost our rights.

You had your uncle who helped you when you were younger.

Are there were men in Afghanistan who are supportive of women's rights, and who are helping women, whether it's study or work in secret?

So yeah, you know, I mean, in Afghanistan we have diversity.

So, we have many men who are very kind and who are trying to help a woman.

But in general, unfortunately, it doesn't happen.

And in the two past years, the men they were they were not united.

So, they didn't stand alongside of women.

And they say they justified that if we support women, the Taliban will arrest us and will torture.

So, I think if the people, especially men, they were united, and they stand and support women, I'm sure that the Taliban,

they were not able to arrest many, many people across the country.

But obviously, if you don't have the unity, and you don't have the solidarity, it is very easy for the Taliban to control a small group of men or women.

How do you think this is going to affect the future of Afghan society, the future of the country by not allowing women to really be part of it?

Well, unlikely.

Afghanistan is a poorest country in the world.

So, one of the poorest countries in the world.

So, without the woman and men, we can't do anything for development, for the progressive.

So, if we want a progressive or development in our country, I'm sure that we need more women educated.

And, you know, in Afghanistan, half of the population are women.

So, if the half of the population were denied their very, very basic rights, so it will be this, you know, this poor priority and sacrificing will exist for a long time.

So, you know, like, without, I'm sure that without the women generation, without the women, education...

educated women, so Afghanistan will not develop or will not progress anymore.

Thank you so much for your time and insights.

We really appreciate you joining us on the program.

Thank you.

Many of the policies implemented by the Taliban have made women and girls prisoners in their own homes...

By stripping women of their right to education and work - the Taliban are not just robbing women of their own future...

But they are hindering Afghanistan's future as well....

because they are depriving the country of one of its most precious resources - the skills and talents of the female half of it's population.

I'm Del Irani, thanks for your company.

I'll see you next time!