US Leadership in the Global Space Race: Bill Nelson / NASA Administrator

Hello and welcome to DEEPER LOOK from New York.

I'm Del Irani, it's great to have your company.

2022 was a historic year for the US space agency, NASA.

Among their many accomplishments, NASA successfully launched the giant next-generation moon rocket, sending it's uncrewed spacecraft successfully around the Moon and back down to Earth.

This marked the first step toward NASA's lunar exploration program in more than 50 years.

But despite this amazing success, there is growing competition from China in outer space.

China landed its third uncrewed spacecraft on the moon in December 2020 and completed its own space station at the end of last year.

So what does the US need to do in order to maintain it's leadership role in space exploration?

And to what extent is international cooperation with allies like Japan, the key to doing so?

Joining me now to talk more about this is Bill Nelson.

He is the Administrator of the US space agency, NASA.

He's also a former US senator, and has been a strong advocate for NASA's programs over the years.

And he joins us now.

Welcome to the program, Senator Nelson, great to have you with us.

Thank you. What a pleasure.

I was reading a little bit about your background.

And I understand that you've actually had the opportunity to fly on the space shuttle and indeed orbited Earth 98 times over six days.

It's a pretty unique experience.

Senator, can you tell us a little bit about how that experience has shaped who you are, and what you bring to this role now as NASA Administrator?

Well, it certainly has informed a lot of my public service.

I flew 37 years ago, in the early part of the space shuttle program.

When you look out the window, and you see home, and home is the planet.

This beautiful creation suspended in the middle of nothing.

You look at the rim of the earth and you see a thin film, and you realize that's the atmosphere that sustains all of our life here.

And so, it has a real effect upon you.

They even have a term for it.

It's called the "overview effect." And that is an effect that happens to every space flyer.

I became more of an environmentalist when I went into space because I could see with the naked eye, as we would orbit the Earth, I could see how we were messing it up.

I could see the destruction of the rainforest, and the upper Amazon region by just seeing the color contrast.

And Senator, as you said, you know, this was more than 30 years ago.

Since then, space exploration has come a very long way.

It's changed significantly.

In fact, last year, under your leadership, you know, you said that we've kicked off a "golden age of space exploration."

Can you tell me specifically what are some of your goals and vision for the year ahead, particularly around the very exciting Artemis mission and program?

Well, we're going back to the moon, this is after a half a century.

But we're not going back just to go and leave.

We're going to stay to work, to live, to invent, to create, in order to go with humans to Mars, and then beyond.

And so, it has been a golden age, because of all the extraordinary things that have been accomplished - the hitting of an asteroid, a bullseye, a rover on Mars right now,

that is digging up samples of cores that is drilling into the Martian soil.

And we'll go back and retrieve those cores in 2031, coming back to Earth.

And I've only just mentioned just a few things.

So, it is - it's a Golden Age of spaceflight and space exploration.

I want to talk to you a little bit about, I guess, the increasing competition there is to this kind of space race.

So, China successfully landed its third uncrewed space craft on the moon back December 2020 and it has launched its own space station.

How do you see this rapid development of China's Space exploration program?

And to what extent does it have an impact on the US' Space Exploration plans and of other countries as well?

Well, it's interesting, you know, what you would consider adversaries, and certainly, by virtue of what President Putin is doing in Ukraine today makes that a substantial adversary.

But isn't it interesting how in civilian space, we cooperate with them.

We run the space station together, we built the space station together.

We have been cooperating with the Russians ever since the Soviet Union in 1975, when a Soviet and an American spacecraft docked, and the crews lived together.

Now, contrast that and all of the other nations that we work with, especially our partner, Japan, and others, like European Space Agency.

Contrast that with China.

To get to your question, China is very secretive.

China is very non-transparent.

China, in the last 10 years, has been very good.

But I don't think they are showing very peaceful intentions in their space program.

And thus, I think we have to be very careful.

And as a result, they have clearly said they're going to the moon.

And so, in that regard, I think there is a space race that we are in right now.

In fact, some Chinese officials have gone so far as expressing intents to build a permanent crewed international lunar station there by 2027.

Can you explain what would happen if China was to go ahead with it?

Why should we be cautious when we hear these type of comments and ambitions coming from China?

Well, I'll give you a good example.

The place that we are going with astronauts to the moon is the south pole.

Why? Because we think that's where there is water and likely in abundance.

There are shadowed parts of the south pole that we know has ice.

And therefore, if we find ice in greater abundance, then you have rocket fuel - hydrogen and oxygen.

So, to specifically answer your question, were China to get to certain critical parts, and there's not a lot of areas in the South Pole.

And what if China said, "Okay, this is our area. You stay out of it."

What we think we should do is to all promise, which is part of the agreement that we now have multiples of tens of nations signing called the "Artemis Accords."

We definitely think we all ought to help each other out.

And we think that we should not disturb the activities of one another, on the surface of the moon, or any other celestial bodies.

And that our purposes ought to be peaceful.

But is it beyond the realm of possibility that the Chinese would land and say - "This is our area. You stay out of it. All of this area is ours."

By the way, what happened in the South China Sea?

Isn't that exactly what China did with the Spratly Islands?

Which was international territory, and they claimed, went in, bulldozed, made runways and said, "This is China. You stay out."

So, you have legitimate concerns based on Chinese activity, I guess on Earth, versus your suspicions of what might happen on other celestial bodies or in outer space? As you said...

I keep offering that the United States' position would be to cooperate, and for us all to join in peaceful purposes.

Now, we have had some cooperation in the space program with China, in Mars orbit; to deconflict Mars orbit.

If we can do it there, why can't we have a much more collaborative and transparent, open, non-secretive relationship?

But China has not responded positively to those entries.

Well, talking about a collaborative positive relationship.

I want to turn your attention now to the United States and Japan's recently signed Framework Agreement on Space Cooperation.

Can you tell us a little bit about this?

How significant is this agreement and in terms of, you know, international cooperation when it comes to space exploration?

By the way, the signing of this agreement was a big deal.

We just had that here in NASA Headquarters.

The Secretary of State Tony Blinken signed for the US, the foreign minister signed for Japan, with the Prime Minister standing there looking on.

And it is a formalization of agreement with all the nits and gnats and, and the legalese for us going together as partners in the vicinity of the moon,

including in the lunar orbit that we are going to establish what you might call a mini-Space Station.

And it's called "Gateway." And Japan is going to be a part of that lunar outpost in orbit around the moon.

How do you see the future of space exploration and given the fact that there is, you know, growing competition from China, but certainly the global space race is on;

what does the US need to do in order to maintain its leadership role when it comes to space exploration?

Well, I think doing exactly what we're doing.

We're not doing it just as the government of the US.

We're doing it with our international partners.

We're not doing it just as a government only program, but it's now a partnership, a public-private partnership with our commercial partners.

That's happening in Japan, as well with the Japanese Space Agency.

So, there is a very robust economic future here.

Not just in the immediate West.

But all the nations of goodwill, that are coming together in this international coalition, have already come together on the International Space Station,

and are now going further out into the cosmos, to the moon.

And I'll just close with this.

I wish that every elected leader could go into space, because if they saw what I saw, when you look back at Earth, orbiting the Earth, every 90 minutes.

You don't see racial division, you don't see religious division, and you don't see political division.

What you see, as you look at Earth, we're all in this together.

That's the thrust of what the United States is trying to do with our partners as we go forth, venturing out into the unknown.

And it's going to be an exciting adventure.

Thank you so much for your time and your insights today.

We really appreciate you joining us on the program.

Thank you. Have a great day.

Thank you. You, too.

The space race is growing, as more countries are embarking on space exploration than ever before.

But as humans continue to advance in this field, important questions over how to regulate activities in outer space, like limiting space debris, are being raised.

Much like on Earth, international cooperation will be vital to ensuring this "golden age of space exploration" is peaceful and prosperous for all.

I'm Del Irani, thanks for your company.

I'll see you next time!