Afghanistan Crisis: A Global Dilemma

[VIDEO]
Two and a half months after the Taliban took power, Afghanistan is facing a major humanitarian crisis.
[Afghan Boy]
"There's nothing here. No toilet, no clothes to wear; nothing."
The international community has been called upon to respond to the country's urgent plight.
[António Guterres / UN Secretary-General]
"After decades of war, suffering and insecurity, they face perhaps their most perilous hour."
However, as the Taliban remains under UN sanctions, assistance from around the world has been limited. Many people in Afghanistan are struggling just to survive.

[Ebara Miki / Chief International Correspondent]
Welcome to "Global Agenda." I'm Ebara Miki. The sudden pullout of US forces from Afghanistan, a vast cohort of people trying to get out of the country, and the Taliban's sweeping takeover all sent shockwaves around the world. But what is happening in the country now? Are we paying enough attention to the unfolding humanitarian crisis, and what can or should the international community do to save lives and livelihoods there? Today, four distinguished guests are joining us to discuss these questions and more. Let me introduce them to you. From Geneva, Peter Maurer, President of the International Committee of the Red Cross, or ICRC. From Lahore, Pakistan, Ahmed Rashid, renowned journalist and author of "Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia" among other books. And from Japan, Kiyama Keiko, Secretary General of the Japan Emergency NGO, or JEN, which is helping people in Afghanistan. And Professor Tanaka Koichiro of Keio University, a specialist in the Middle East. He is also a former Political Affairs Officer for the United Nations Special Mission to Afghanistan. Welcome to you all. First of all, I would like to ask each of you to briefly describe how you see the current situation in Afghanistan. Mr. Maurer first.

[Peter Maurer / President, International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC)]
Thanks a lot. I think what was referred to in the video that we just have seen reflects well what the situation is. It's what we call a complex emergency in which governance challenges, change of governance challenges feed into economic crisis, into financial crisis, into humanitarian impact for people. And this comes on top of 40 years of conflict. At the same time, there are also positive developments. There is more security for average Afghans today than during the war. But of course, the implosion of social services due to the exit of so many Afghans, of so many foreigners, the halt of all the support programs which were in place for the previous government which to 70% have been paid by outside development and humanitarian agencies, the stop of all these programs causes this deep crisis which affects probably more than half of the Afghan population which is today dependent on humanitarian assistance.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Mr. Rashid.

[Ahmed Rashid / Journalist and Writer]
Many people ask me what is the difference between the Taliban now and the Taliban when I first saw them and stayed with them for some time in 1994. There are cosmetic changes, but I feel still very much that they have not really used this time in exile productively. Their ideology is based on Deobandi Islam which is a sect of Sunni Islam. It remains very conservative, not a moderate ideology. Their attitude towards women and girls and education has not really changed very much, although they're explaining, their PR is much better now than it was then. And they don't seem to have any sense of governance, of having younger Taliban who perhaps would be better educated. Instead, what we've seen are the old-timers. Half the cabinet is made up of the old guard who are very conservative, very militant and quite frankly quite ignorant also about how the modern world works. And this time, the world is totally focused on them because people are very concerned about the plight of 40 million Afghans who are facing, as Mr. Maurer said, a catastrophe.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Ms. Kiyama.

[Kiyama Keiko / Secretary General, Japan Emergency NGO (JEN)]
Yes. From the point of view of a humanitarian situation, I can say it is a crisis. People are not able to get food because the salary payment is not happening. So because of this fund being frozen, people are suffering a lot. And the cost of living is getting higher. It's under hyperinflation, so people are not paid and the price of living is increasing, so it is really a disaster.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Mr. Tanaka.

[Tanaka Koichiro / Professor, Keio University]
Yes. I think we can all agree that the condition in Afghanistan is getting from bad to worse, and that there will be little time left for the international community to start to do something before people start to freeze or to starve to death. The other part of the problem I believe is that there's sort of an absence of a reliable authority even though the Taliban do claim that they are the government of today, or the de facto government of today. They are not that sort of a reliable authority that we can deal with, and that's going to cause a problem because they were supposed to, or the government was supposed to provide these services, whatever was needed, required for the people. And if that is absent, we can't do much on the ground. The second point I'd like to add here is that there's also an absence of coherence in unity amongst the international community on how to deal with this situation right now. Of course, how to deal with the Taliban, that's one thing, and also, how to deal with the current ongoing crisis or the developing crisis.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Now before continuing our discussion, let's listen to what these two gentlemen working in the field of humanitarian assistance had to say about what's happening on the ground. The first is an Afghan staff member of a local NGO. These are some images he took in Kabul one month ago. At that time, people who'd lost their jobs or were short of cash were selling whatever they could, from carpets to sofas, tables and lamps, out in the street. One and a half months later, he described the latest situation.

[NGO staff member, Afghanistan]
Unfortunately, the situation is deteriorating day by day. With every day, the condition is more worse for the people who live here. And now it has gone to another level that a mother has to choose whether to sell one of their kids just to survive. A mother had come to the mosque where I live in that area. She was saying that she cannot feed anymore. If the children are with her, they will die. They will end up dying. So better somebody take them and take care of them. So I saw that myself. I have also seen previously employed people who lost their jobs begging in the streets. A teacher coming and begging, asking for money just to provide food to their daughter. The banking situation has also gone worse. In some provinces, the banks are not functional at all. And that is putting more and more pressure on the central bank.

[EBARA]
What about the price of food and the access to food?

[NGO staff member]
One sack of wheat flour was 1,500 afghani. Now it's 2,500 afghani. With the current drought and the current crisis that we face with the internally displaced people, we have lost this cropping season this time. So next year will be very, very worse for the people. The winter has already started in some provinces and it's getting colder day by day. So we have people living in a tent, in a park and some just even don't have tents. So surviving is not just with food now. We need to provide them winterization packages also.

[EBARA]
I also interviewed Salam Al-Janabi of the United Nations Children's Fund or UNICEF Afghanistan.

[Salam Al-Janabi / UNICEF Afghanistan]
Because certain funding streams coming into the country were totally cut off, the health system almost collapsed. Practically, the primary and secondary health facilities are not functioning. Right? So with all of this and the compounding effects of acute watery diarrhea outbreaks, measles outbreaks are really raising the malnutrition crisis. The situation has seriously worsened. By the end of the year, there will be around three million children under five who are acutely malnourished. This is half of Afghanistan's children under five. Quite a humongous number. Additionally, within these three million, there will be about a million who will be literally fighting for their lives because they will be in need of treatment for severe acute malnutrition.

[EBARA]
I understand that representatives of UNICEF and WFP jointly visited cities like Herat. What did you observe?

[AL-JANABI]
We visited the regional hospital in Herat. We went to the section that treats children with acute malnutrition. This is a ward that really can take 60 children. There were 90 children in it. Multiple children were sleeping in the same bed being treated.

[EBARA]
Talking about education, especially for girls, tell me what is really happening.

[AL-JANABI]
The picture around education is a little bit complex and varied around the country. Generally speaking, for education, schools have been open now for a while for primary education, boys and girls, which is fantastic. Mostly, for secondary education for girls is where our problem is. Because in most of the country, there has been no clear announcement for girls, adolescent girls from grade 7 onwards, to be able to go back to school. Broadly speaking, we have not seen the delivery on the promise that the Taliban came in with that they will not restrict the space for girls and women.

[EBARA]
Mr. Maurer, you visited Afghanistan in September after the Taliban's takeover. Tell us what you saw there.

[MAURER]
I mean, a lot of what I have seen is convergent with what we have heard. I think it is obvious that when you go through the country, when you look at places where I have visited, Kandahar, Lashkar Gah, Ghazni and Kabul, then you basically see the deepening economic, financial, social crisis, the challenge of delivering basic services, food, health, water, sanitation services, electricity to people. And this compounding crisis is deepening from one day to another. I wanted to highlight that when I talked to Afghans... The Afghan population now, when I talked to them during my trip, I was struck also by this ambivalent feeling of fear, concern on the one side about what is happening and about their future, and at the same time, I was also impressed on the appreciation that the war is over. So there is not a sort of linear feeling at the present moment. I think what is obvious, and I wanted to underline that, given the winter coming, it is of critical importance that we have a consensus in the international community and an ability to rehabilitate those social systems and the financial systems so that the worst can be prevented and further massive disruptions can be prevented in the weeks to come.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Ms. Kiyama, your organization works mainly in Nangarhar Province. Tell us what your organization does and what you find the biggest problem right now.

[KIYAMA]
Yes. We have been working in water and sanitation from before the Taliban takeover. And actually, as soon as the 16th of August, we humanitarian agencies in Nangarhar were contacted by the Taliban through UN watchers saying that they would like to have a coordination meeting. But that day, unfortunately, the curfew was still on so we couldn't meet. But within a week, they again contacted us. So the Taliban "administration," I should say, is willing to support the humanitarian assistance. And they assured the safety of our staff also, so we were able to continue the water and sanitation. We even started having our female staff to go around the field site alone because it is health-related. So all the health-related female staff can travel alone and it is assured that safety of them are assured and we were able to continue.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Mr. Maurer, I want to ask you one more thing. You met the Taliban's leadership in Afghanistan also. What did they ask you to do, or what was their reaction to your visit?

[MAURER]
As you know, we have been in Afghanistan for more than 35 years and we have known the Taliban in government, out of government, in provinces in which they were in control of, and I think there was an encouragement and an appreciation for the work we have done in the past and the strong encouragement to continue and to increase. And I think I wanted to echo that in terms of political commitment, what I hear is that they are interested that we scale and speed our response, and they are giving guarantees in terms of the diversity of our staff, of the access to people, of the possibility of women and minorities within staff of ICRC to work. When I look then at the reality of the day to day, we see an uneven picture. We see that in certain places, this commitment is a reality, and in other places, the commitment is still there to unfold and to concretize and we have a very differentiated reality. In some places, it's much more difficult than in other places.

[EBARA]
Mr. Rashid, problems such as the drought and prolonged conflict, the large number of internally displaced people were already there before the Taliban took over. However, now they are in the driver's seat. How are they governing this crisis in your view?

[RASHID]
I think that is really the critical question. First of all, the international community wants them to deal with all the various terrorist groups who are in Afghanistan including Al Qaeda and ISIS and groups from Pakistan, from Central Asia and even from China. And the Taliban so far have made no attempt to deal with these groups, to put them down, imprison them, send them back to their home countries or some step like that. The other aspect is the division within the Taliban itself. I think there are divisions. For example, Mullah Ghani Baradar, the Deputy Prime Minister who negotiated the agreement with the Americans in Qatar, he has disappeared for the last few weeks. He's nowhere to be seen. Now he's considered to be very much a moderate who wanted perhaps an agreement about the cabinet and about other issues. But unfortunately, what we've seen is that the cabinet is made up mostly of very hardline elements in the Taliban including the Haqqani Network. Two members of the Haqqani Network and two sympathizers are now government ministers. And this network, if you remember, was the most outrageous and lethal killing machine in Afghanistan over the last 10 years and has been condemned by the United Nations and the US. So now it's very difficult for the Taliban when you have a cabinet of hardliners, people wanted by the international community. Unless you make some really radical changes and you improve your governance at least in the field and to deal with the humanitarian crisis, I think we're going to face continuing problems and the reluctance by the international community to send more aid even if it is just humanitarian aid to Afghanistan.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Ms. Kiyama, talking about girls' education, because the gentleman from UNICEF was talking about that, what's going on with your organization, and also what are your thoughts when you look at the situation?

[KIYAMA]
Yes. Actually, we also have a project to promote girls' education, and we are repairing schools and we are trying to provide teachers' training courses. And even that, we have received assurance from the Taliban on the ground. I mean Nangarhar. They said that they support our activities including female staff working on that. But as you said, from grades 7 to 12, they haven't decided. I mean the female girls' education from grade 7 to 12. Unless they decide, they cannot have this education. So it seems from our limited experience in Nangarhar, it seems that the Taliban seems to be trying to utilize the system which has been implemented in the last 20 years. But they are not yet fully utilizing the system. And the decision has to be made. Of course, it's been only two months, so it may take time. But hopefully they will decide, they will come to the conclusion, and we can start education for girls also.

[EBARA]
So, would you say we should give time to the Taliban? Or what do you think? What's your outlook?

[TANAKA]
I think it relates to how the Taliban is working or operating. So, just like Ms. Kiyama just mentioned, I believe that the Taliban's attitude remains to be the same just like Mr. Rashid had referred to earlier. It's that the changes are quite superficial and cosmetic. And one thing that I recognize or feel or sense is that it's their attitude that "We rule, you deliver." "You" meaning the international community or NGOs or organizations like ICRC or the UN organizations. So that tells that they haven't changed much. Problems are there, and also, there are lot of other problems that are associated to the Taliban's attitude. One is that they haven't renounced terrorism. With all the years that have happened ever since 9/11, 2001, they still haven't renounced terrorism, and the acting minister for the interior has recently praised the suicide attackers or suicide bombers which tells that they still haven't gotten that far from what they were 20 years ago. They also haven't admitted to the past mistakes like harboring Mr. bin Laden and the Al Qaeda network inside their territory. So that tells a lot. Another point I'd rather say is that they haven't acknowledged international law and conventions and other norms that the Afghan government in the past have ratified, or the nation of Afghanistan has ratified. Take the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women. They haven't said anything about it. Or even about the universal declaration on human rights. So that also tells that they are not that different.

[EBARA]
Mr. Maurer.

[MAURER]
Yes, I would maybe interject on that issue. Of course, as both Mr. Rashid and Mr. Tanaka have said, we see very uneven declarations and some of continuity and some of moderation within the Taliban movement. But in our view, we are not anymore in the year 2000 even if some of the declarations reminds us of the past. If I look at what the reality in the field is in different parts of Afghanistan, we see sometimes an increased capacity to govern in certain sectors. I wanted to highlight that when I visited, and also what I get back from my colleagues on the ground, is that they do have certain developed capacity for instance in the health sector. That was a sector where they had already delivery of services in some of the territories controlled by them. And so, I was impressed on the one side to see how much sophistication and granularity of understanding of the health sector I met in certain places. And in that sense, I wanted also really to highlight what Keiko Kiyama has mentioned before. We make very similar experiences, and we will see how we negotiate ourselves and how we create a space of competence in some of the critical services that need to be delivered in Afghanistan.

[EBARA]
I would like to ask you, Mr. Rashid. There have been a number of suicide attacks seemingly targeting the Taliban. Is this a contest over who might rule the country? Or, what is happening?

[RASHID]
The Taliban have always resented Islamic State, ISIS, and ISIS have been challenging the Taliban saying they're not Islamic enough and they're not pure Muslims and they've done a deal with the infidels, the Americans, that they've been talking to NATO. And so, there is a conflict between these two elements which has gotten worse in the last two months. There have been some terrible attacks. And of course, what we've seen of Islamic State is that they've been targeting minorities, particularly the Shia Hazaras who live in a part of Afghanistan which is close to Iran. The Taliban themself have a resentment against the Hazaras because they are Shia. So the Hazaras have not been getting the kind of protection and safety that they deserve and that they need very badly. But it's now really up to the Taliban. The Americans have offered the Taliban help in getting hold of ISIS and getting their ringleaders and killing them or taking them prisoner, but the Taliban have said, we don't need American help, we'll do it ourselves. So far, they haven't been able to do it themselves and these attacks have continued.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Now I would like to turn to the global response. Even if the international community is aware of the plight of people in Afghanistan, many countries face a dilemma as to how or even whether to help.

[VIDEO]
The Group of Twenty major economies recently held a special summit pledging humanitarian support to Afghanistan. UN Secretary-General, António Guterres, urged the international community to support Afghanistan's economy.
[António Guterres / UN Secretary-General]
"Humanitarian assistance saves lives, but it will not solve the problem if the economy of Afghanistan collapses. We also need to make sure we do everything we can to prevent the economic collapse of the country."
But helping to salvage the country's economy isn't simple. The Taliban remains under sanctions by the UN and the US. That's left countries divided over how to resolve the issue.
[Chinese UN Deputy Ambassador]
"The (frozen) assets should be used for Afghanistan, not for intimidation or suppression."
[US Envoy to UN]
"We call on Taliban leadership to ensure Taliban members at all levels comply with their obligations under international humanitarian law."
Last month, a problem arose at the UN between the representatives of the former government and the Taliban over who should address the General Assembly for Afghanistan. In the end, neither side took the podium. The international community has not recognized the Taliban as a legitimate government.

[EBARA]
So, Mr. Maurer, you were in New York for the General Assembly of the United Nations where you met many leaders of the world. What did you tell them, and what was the atmosphere as far as Afghanistan is concerned?

[MAURER]
I think my message was twofold. One was to remind governments that humanitarian assistance has to be delivered without conditions. That's a permanent practice enshrined in international humanitarian law and the practice which has unfolded over decades. So it was important to me to remind that, given the seriousness of the situation, we need to scale and speed humanitarian assistance which cannot be conditioned, and sanctions have to find adequate exemptions in order to be able to work in that mutual and impartial humanitarian space. The second message of course is that, if we are in a divided international community, we should at least be able to have a designated and limited channel of financial injection, of injection of finance into Afghanistan in order to deliver social services and to be able to pay salaries which are directly impacting the lives and livelihoods of Afghans. We also appeal to them to create a breathing space of a financial limited channel which allows us to deliver social services to people, because otherwise, the security implication, the humanitarian implication, the disruptive implication of non-action or of tight sanctions regimes now suffocating even the delivery of social services will be devastating. And I do have the impression that the message has been heard. The cursor has shifted towards a broader acceptance of humanitarian assistance and the delivery of social services.

[EBARA]
Ms. Kiyama, your organization also has donors and sponsors. Do you meet similar reactions of having a dilemma, "We want to help the Afghan people, but we don't want to give money to the Taliban?"

[KIYAMA]
Yes. Yes, we do. But we believe that that's kind of lack of information. Because like Mr. Maurer said, the security is now better. Maybe it's out of fear against the Taliban. If you do something wrong, the Taliban may punish you so severely. But anyway, the security is better. Of course, some IS attacks have been happening and security checkpoints have increased, but we have never been yet interrupted by the Taliban, and we have never received any kind of attempt to take some humanitarian assistance to them. So we have been trying to explain to our donors that your funds will be utilized for humanitarian purposes so please be assured that it will be okay.

[EBARA]
Professor Tanaka, UN Secretary-General Gutierrez said, not only humanitarian assistance is needed but we need to solve it, the economy of Afghanistan. But of course, that's very difficult because there are UN sanctions and separately, sanctions by the US, etc.

[TANAKA]
According to the Security Council resolutions, all funds or all bank accounts, whatever you could call it, related to both the Taliban government or the entity and individuals, high-ranking individuals, were frozen. And that remains to be the same situation as today. The funds or the money or the bank accounts are frozen. And it also applies to a country like Japan because if there are any funds or bank accounts related to the Taliban or, as of today, if the Taliban claimed that they are the Afghan government, then it will automatically be frozen. The other part is that the United States' financial institutions actually hold a huge chunk of the Afghan government funds, and they work under the instructions and also guidance from the treasury, the Department of the Treasury. And the Department of the Treasury, unless they would allow some sort of special condition for the transactions to happen, it is quite unlikely that these funds will be unfrozen from the US bank accounts and then be delivered to the hands of either the international institutions that are helping the Afghans inside Afghanistan or even to the so-called Afghan government. And that's very difficult to change. The Security Council resolution, it is very difficult to revoke it. It requires nine votes out of 15 states, and also, it will be provided that five permanent member states would not use their right to veto. So we cannot see in the short term that there will be a total removal of the sanctions against the Taliban. So what we need to do, or what the Taliban and others would want to see is that there will be a certain channel, just like Mr. Maurer was referring to, for the delivery of or at least supporting the humanitarian assistances and possibly some amount that would keep the government or those working for the government to be paid with the salaries.

[EBARA]
Mr. Rashid, can you envision the Taliban creating the conditions that would lead to lifting of the sanctions on themselves?

[RASHID]
No, I don't see that happening. I don't see them mending their way and trying to improve the situation in the economy and looking after the public, the population, and allowing girls to go to school. I don't see any of these changes happening very quickly. I think what can happen, what could happen, is that the international community should focus on getting a commitment from the Taliban that if humanitarian aid is given to the Afghans, it should be distributed by the international community such as the United Nations and NGOs that are known to be efficient and well-meaning. In other words, would the Taliban be willing to hand off some of the job of feeding the population and improving the health situation by allowing foreigners to do it rather than themselves? Now, they don't have the capacity to do it because they don't have doctors, they don't have nurses, they don't have nutritionists who could equal out the food. They have very few technical people, unfortunately. And this has been a big shock I think to everyone, that 20 years on, they haven't learned anything. They haven't been able to create a technical cadre of workers who would be good in agriculture and industry and health and all the rest of it. So what I think should happen is, the international community should unite and put pressure on the Taliban to accept the presence of the UN and NGOs to improve the humanitarian situation in Afghanistan. Whether the Taliban will accept that or not is another very big question, but it can be negotiated, I think.

[EBARA]
Mr. Maurer.

[MAURER]
Yes indeed, it has to be negotiated. The exact arrangements with the Taliban and the role of the international community of international operators like the Red Cross or the UN, it has to be negotiated. But what we see is a positive attitude to find a solution which allows us as internationals to give credibility to a solid humanitarian assistance which is targeted to the need of people. The tens of thousands of volunteers and officials who for the last 40 years, 50 years have delivered services to people are there, and they do interact in quite a positive way, also with other parts of this administration. So there is a space I think, and what we experience is a positive attitude of the Taliban towards international intermediation. We are not yet there, as Mr. Tanaka has rightly said, but I wanted certainly to say, I see at least a perspective that we can prevent the worst in finding this intermediary ground. We've had a lot of, sort of, ambiguity in the way the existing structure interacts with the new Taliban governance.

[EBARA]
Yes. Yes please.

[KIYAMA]
To Professor Tanaka, I understand that there are so many shortfalls from the Taliban, but effective control is there by the Taliban. And if we lose this effective control, who could take over and rule the country and lead the country to a better future?

[TANAKA]
Thank you for your question. I believe that it's a matter of how you see the situation whether from a very microscopic development or as a macro economy or macro political condition or sphere. And of course, yes, there needs to be people on the ground, there needs to be an institution, there needs to be some sort of a rule or order to take care of the things or daily issues. So, at Nangarhar where your organization is actively working and successfully working, the local Taliban, either its leadership or subordinates working under the Taliban leadership, they are there to control the situation. I think that's okay. That is required, definitely. But that itself, even if that is happening well in Nangarhar, that doesn't mean that automatically in the end Afghanistan as a country as a whole is all right or that it's going to go from bad to better and that it will improve in the future. So I think it's a perspective of where you see it. I mean, I do respect the activities done by JEN and other NGOs that really take care of the requirements of the people on the ground, and that is definitely required. But at the same time, there needs to be an organization, a bigger organization, a bigger macro-economic and political perspective to see what is better and what is needed at least to support and run the entire country.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Recently, Russia organized international talks on Afghanistan in which regional powers such as China, Pakistan, India, Iran and Central Asian states like Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan and the Taliban's representatives all joined, and the US didn't participate in it. That was followed by another conference hosted by Iran. What does this all tell us? Mr. Rashid.

[RASHID]
The last time around, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates were the first countries, the only countries to recognize the Taliban. And they did it very quickly, something they regretted. This was in 1996 when the Taliban had captured Kabul for the first time. And I think what we are seeing now is a similar situation. You've got two different groups of countries vying for the attention of the Taliban. You've got the west with the US, NATO, Japan and other such countries working together, and you've got a group of countries who perhaps would be more willing to give aid to the Taliban without too many questions. These countries are China, Russia, Pakistan, Iran and possibly Qatar. These are what you would call the sort of near allies of the Taliban. Now, it seems what we're dealing with are two separate blocs of countries, and each bloc has a different way of dealing. One bloc wants a quick resolution of this and help the Taliban even if they continue some of their bad habits, and the other bloc wanting to delay any kind of recognition until there's a negotiated deal on humanitarian affairs. So this is the dilemma at the moment and it's a logjam. The neighborhood bloc is very much aware that they would like to recognize the Taliban. Some countries like Pakistan would like to do it as soon as possible. But they also know that they would be condemned in the international community if they did it too fast. So we have these tensions also within the international community which are not going to go away.

[EBARA]
Thank you. So many complicated issues that you have to consider. But Ms. Kiyama, how are you planning to help people at this very difficult time when winter is approaching?

[KIYAMA]
Yes, the situation is getting very bad day by day. Our colleagues on the ground have already seen more children and women on the street sometimes working, but sometimes begging, and the situation can be seen with your own eyes that it's going very worse. So we have no time to lose. We have to start emergency food assistance because they cannot survive this winter.

[EBARA]
Thank you. So, to conclude this edition, I'd like to invite all of you to share your message with the people of Afghanistan and the world. So Mr. Maurer, your message please.

[MAURER]
I think my message would be twofold. First, we need to continue, increase and adapt our response with regard to basic services to the Afghan populations. It's really health, water, sanitation, food, electricity which are of critical importance. We have increased our budget considerably, and we and others need to continue on that track. And secondly, given my agreement with the analysis that we won't find anytime soon a political agreement in the international community, it is important to find a pragmatic and consensual space in which the necessary social services to people can be delivered, and this is a negotiating task in which ICRC is internationally participating. And my last message is, of course let's not forget that political disagreement over the future of a country is not specific to Afghanistan. ICRC is active in more than 40 active conflicts of the world, and there is never in those conflicts an agreement of the international community how to deal with. It is of critical importance that politicians take the responsibility and work towards more consensual political agreement which is outside of the realm of humanitarian organizations but nevertheless of critical importance.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Mr. Rashid.

[RASHID]
Very briefly, I think the international community has to get its act together. We have to see a much more high-level, a United Nations commitment to negotiating what Mr. Maurer has pointed out. We need the involvement of ICRC because ICRC is very deeply trusted even by the Taliban. I remember last time in the 90s, they threw out the UN, they threw out all the NGOs, but they didn't throw out the ICRC which was actually running many of the hospitals at that time in Kabul and other cities. So I think you need less perhaps American and NATO involvement. You need the international organizations and NGOs to be able to run this negotiation with the Taliban as to how exactly aid and food will be delivered. And this needs to be done very quickly because, our earlier speakers have pointed out, winter is upon us and there's no time to lose. The last thing we want to see now is not only that the Taliban retake Afghanistan but that tens of thousands of Afghans die because of the cold.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Professor Tanaka.

[TANAKA]
One thing I would like to say is that sooner or later, the Taliban government, they will go bankrupt either economically or politically. So there needs to be a real meaningful inter-Afghan dialogue to be relaunched. There needs to be other countries apart from the United States, again, to first of all build consensus and also to find a way and also to provide a channel or provide a venue for meaningful inter-Afghan dialogue so that eventually there would be a functioning and internationally recognized government regardless of whether it will be a genuine Taliban or sort of a hybrid government that will emerge in the future.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Ms. Kiyama.

[KIYAMA]
Yes. I have three things to say. The first thing is, let the system continue working. Of course, it looks like when the Taliban came, the previous system had fallen apart. But it has not. So if we want to keep the system going, this system has been established in these 20 years, then we hope this to be continued. And for that, the second thing is that the public servants should be paid. They haven't received salaries for five months. That means they cannot do... Teachers and doctors and nurses are not receiving enough money. Then they cannot live, then they cannot sustain the system. And the third thing is that we have to be brave enough to make a decision that will allow unconditional humanitarian assistance because life is important. Human rights are important, but life needs to be there for human rights to be observed.

[EBARA]
Thank you. Thank you, all of you, for your insights. The choices many nations are grappling with about whether or how to help Afghanistan may be difficult, but we must also remember that it was isolation from the rest of the world that drove the country to become a breeding ground for international terrorism, and no time should be wasted to save the lives of starving children. Thank you for watching this edition of "Global Agenda."