Weaving the Future with Tradition

Hi there. Today I'm walking around Nishijin, neighborhood of Kyoto.

Hosoo Masataka, our guest today, says he got deep roots in this area.

So I'm really looking forward to meeting him.

Nishijin is a historic district in Kyoto where traditional textiles are produced.

- Hi.
- Hello.

- Mr. Hosoo?
- Yes.

I'm Robert Campbell.
It's so nice to finally meet you.

I've heard and read a lot about
Nishijin but never visited.

I grew up here. The area around us
is part of the weaving district.

Today's guest, Hosoo Masataka, is the twelfth-generation head of a Nishijin textile company founded in 1688.

Nishijin textiles are characterized by elaborate colors and rich textures.

The varied and elegant designs are created by the hands of many artisans.

Considered Japan's most exquisite, Nishijin textiles have been made in Kyoto for over a thousand years.

Hosoo has introduced innovative techniques into this ancient tradition, and is expanding into new fields.

The possibilities are endless.

I want to leave blanks to fill,
rather than passing on perfection.

You've revolutionized my views
on Nishijin textiles.

Hosoo is breathing new life into Nishijin textiles.

We hear his thoughts on the future of the craft.

I hear some unusual sounds.
Do you have many memories of these sounds?

The neighborhood resonated with
the sound of looms from all over.

Like a local heartbeat.
It was very much part of local life.

If I visited a friend, their mom
would be weaving at home.

I really like this wall.
It must be old.

The layers of tile look
like a pastry.

Various crafts are incorporated
into the architecture.

It's beautiful. Fascinating.

Growing up here must have
influenced your perspective.

I wasn't aware of it, but yes.
I think it left its mark on me.

Lovely.

What an elegant color.

Thank you.

It's so beautiful.

What is the thread made of?

It's silk.

We use a combination of silk threads of varying thickness which are dyed before being woven into intricate designs and textures.

This is the main characteristic of Nishijin textiles.

When worn on the body, the way it looks will vary depending on the movement, the way it's tied, and which part of the design is revealed.

You're exactly right.

Nishijin textiles are produced by weaving threads into layers.

The appearance changes based on the angle of the light.

Over 200 different textiles are on display here.

Products such as furniture can be custom ordered.

Take a look at this piece.

If you maneuver it around, it shifts from gold to silver.

Oh, you're right.

It's shimmering both gold and silver in the light.

And if you look at the back... you can see these little dots of red as well.

It's so intricate.

It's like looking at a terrain map.

And the rich texture reminds me of washi paper.

One feature of Nishijin textiles is that they're three-dimensional.

The silk threads are twisted 50 more times than other textiles, and are held in place with glue during the weaving.

Once the glue is washed off, part of the flat textile shrinks to reveal the embedded pattern.

It's a centuries-old technique developed here.

May I look at the back?

Sure.

Ah, I see.

You can see how parts of the weave are tight.

It's designed to look like this from the start.

This is another feature of Nishijin textiles.

Amazing.

Hosoo has launched a line of accessories and shoes to make Nishijin textiles accessible to a wider clientele.

This sofa is upholstered in Nishijin fabric.

Here, the fabric adorns the walls of a hotel room.

Hosoo's efforts to expand began in 2009, following a request from an American architect.

Traditional Nishijin textiles are 32 centimeters wide.

But the request was for textiles 150 centimeters wide.

There were no looms capable of producing such a size.

It took Hosoo and his craftsmen a year to develop a loom that could meet the request.

With the ability to produce wider textiles, Hosoo began receiving commissions from high-end boutiques and automobile makers.

His success has spread awareness of the beauty and craftsmanship of Nishijin textiles.

This is such a comfortable chair.

In the tea ceremony, we often encounter elements of natural beauty within the simple, everyday objects that we use.

I was reminded of this when I saw that Nishijin fabric was used to upholster this chair.

Some parts reflect light while others are matte.

The texture has a lovely variation, too.

I wonder why Nishijin textiles were only ever used for obi belts for so long.

Nishijin textiles were used for obi belts, which are just 32 centimeters wide.

For much of the 1,200-year history, the textiles were handwoven.

So the looms were built on a human scale, perfect for obi.

So, the maximum width was that of a weaver's arm span.

Yes, so 70 centimeters at most.

That's the width of a formal maru obi, which is folded in half so that the pattern shows on both sides.

So the only way to meet the architect's request was to augment the weaver's physical capabilities.

We had to develop an entirely new loom.

So we started from scratch, with our artisans developing the necessary parts.

Although the loom is a machine, it's operated by a single weaver who handles the loom as an extension of their body.

In other words, the human body is augmented by technology.

In the past, Nishijin textiles were woven on drawlooms that were operated by two people.

These drawlooms consist of an overhead frame 4 meters above the floor loom.

The weaver seated above would raise and lower the warp threads, while the weaver seated below would insert the weft threads.

So the two had to work in sync in order to weave the fabric.

In 1801, the French inventor Joseph Marie Jacquard developed the revolutionary automatic Jacquard loom.

A punch card is used to pull up the warp threads indicated by the holes, with the weft threads woven in and out.

Complex patterns could now be finished in a shorter time and with less effort.

Jacquard looms were imported and introduced to Nishijin, allowing textiles that had been exclusive to the upper reaches of society to become more accessible.

After the war, Nishijin became a popular luxury textile among ordinary people.

The invention of the Jacquard loom also led to the invention of computers.

Early IBM computers also used punch cards.

The idea of raising warp threads through designated holes is what inspired the binary code used in IBM computers.

So the pursuit of looms that could produce more textiles led to the invention of the Jacquard loom.

In turn, that inspired the birth of computers, which are indispensable to modern society.

Throughout history, the development of technology seems to have always been driven by the pursuit of beauty.

In 2017, Hosoo teamed up with a major electronics company to create a conceptual product.

A speaker with sensors, that plays music when touched.

These pieces of washi paper are coated with lacquer as well as gold and silver leaf.

This material is cut into extremely fine threads and woven into some traditional Nishijin textiles.

Hosoo had the idea of integrating technology with textiles woven with this material, which can conduct electricity.

There's a washi paper maker who also lives here in Kyoto, who's currently working to make car bodies entirely out of washi paper.

It's a concept that is totally out of the box.

I think it'll lead to a change in conventional thinking.

I understand that you've been working with MIT on a joint research project.

In 2016, I was invited to join the MIT Media Lab Director's Fellow program.

The Lab emphasizes both art and science equally.

Why did you decide to accept the invitation?

I wanted to combine the beauty of Nishijin textiles with technology.

My main goal is to one day build a house with textiles, by developing new textiles with structure and functions.

Architecture using textiles?

Right, by developing textiles that solidify under certain conditions.

We haven't achieved this yet.

But once we do so, we could create mobile seasonal homes that could easily be dismantled and transported on a whim, like something out of an anime.

They would be developed to make objects compact and easy to transport.

This is what I'm currently researching.

Spectacular.

My work with MIT has made me consider the definition of Nishijin textiles.

If you could produce Nishijin textiles with a 3D printer, would they still be Nishijin textiles?

Tricky question.

Such questions made me give serious thought to what constituted the DNA of Nishijin textiles.

And the answer I arrived at, was beauty.

Beauty is what defines Nishijin textiles.

It's the reason it exists.

Kyoto was the capital of Japan for 1,000 years.

During that time, our clientele included the emperor, aristocrats, shogun, along with shrines and temples.

They were all willing to pay for beauty, regardless of the cost.

So the pursuit of beauty was the driving force behind the advancement of Nishijin textiles.

There's also the fact that the Japanese aristocracy didn't adorn themselves with jewelry.

The use of accessories was limited.

So what differentiated them from the lower ranks of society was the quality and beauty of their kimonos.

So, I believe, even if Nishijin textiles were to be produced with 3D printers, as long as they remained beautiful, they could be considered the "real thing."

We haven't achieved that yet.

But working with MIT has made me give serious thought to the DNA of Nishijin textiles.

Hosoo's family firm is over 300 years old.

But Hosoo didn't decide to take it on until he was 30.

I had no intention of taking over the business, I had no interest in it.

I felt Nishijin textiles were too conservative.

I wanted to do something creative, so I became a musician.

A musician?

I fell in love with punk and the Sex Pistols, and started playing in a punk band in high school.

Then from there I moved on to electronic and experimental music using computers.

So what was it that changed your mind?

Why did you end up deciding to take over the family business?

I found out that my father was aiming to expand overseas, something no other Nishijin company had done before.

I felt that was a very creative endeavor, and it opened my eyes to the beauty and potential of Nishijin textiles.

After joining the business, I realized that the industry exists today because it has continued to pursue innovation.

So that was what changed my mind.

I see.

I realize now that Nishijin textiles have had a strong influence on my aesthetic sensibilities.

I think everyone has a sense of beauty.

It's not something that's limited to designers, artists, and other creators.

Everyone has a sense of beauty, although they may not be aware of it.

Working with Nishijin textiles has helped awaken my sensibilities.

Likewise, people who may have been content with using plastic dishes, may feel that they need something more in their lives, and decide to splurge on handcrafted pottery.

Surrounding themselves with beauty helps awaken their sensibilities.

It broadens their horizons, which in turn enriches their lives.

In 2022, Hosoo created an art installation as part of a marketing event for a high-end whiskey brand.

The piece featured 14,000 silk threads dyed in varying shades of purple.

The threads were dyed over a period of half a year, using natural dyes extracted from plants.

Hosoo shows us the workshop where the threads were dyed.

He set up this workshop in 2021 to research historic dyes from a thousand years ago.

These are all hand-dyed.

Each of them is a slightly different shade.

Yes, the threads are dyed and dried over and over again.

It takes about 2 or 3 months to produce the deepest hues.

Gorgeous.

The subtle colors are so beautiful.

They seem to change in color as they reflect the light.

Yes, one of the features of this dye is that it has fluorescent properties.

The colors are also bright and clear, which is another distinguishing character of ancient dyes.

I want to change the perception that natural dyes can only produce dull colors.

Here we have a collection of various plants used to make ancient dyes.

These are the roots of a plant commonly known as purple gromwell.

So the roots themselves are purple, almost navy.

May I?

Sure.

The roots are boiled to extract the dye, which is used to produce different shades of purple.

Why did you decide to gather these roots and study natural dyes?

There are colors that can only be produced with natural dyes.

But unless we seize this opportunity now, and learn how to extract and use them, they could be lost to us forever.

What is he doing?

He's rinsing the silk threads in well water.

This is in preparation for the dyeing process.

So, it's a pre-rinse.

Yes, the threads need to be soaked and rinsed.

They're a very pale shade of pink.

Yes, they've been dyed once and dried, so he's rinsing them to prepare for the next stage of dyeing.

This process is repeated to achieved the desired color.

It takes time and effort.

The water is also very important.

The quality of Nishijin's groundwater has a lot to do with its beautiful colors.

What attracted you to this field?

There's no way of knowing how the color will turn out.

It depends on the plant's habitat, the year, and the timing of the harvest.

I have to deal with the outcome.

So it's hard work, but also fascinating.

I'm constantly thinking of how to produce the colors I'm aiming for.

In order to preserve Kyoto's traditional crafts, Hosoo formed a team of like-minded young artisans.

He and his team are working on projects that integrate traditional crafts with art, design, and technology.

I understand that you are now focusing on ways to reevaluate and improve the status of artisans.

Yes, I believe there are so many possibilities and perspectives to pursue.

These people are creators working hard to keep their traditions alive.

It's important to give them the respect they deserve.

We need to continuously update the image they convey.

After all, they're creating objects of beauty that have the power to inspire and impress.

Unfortunately, it's difficult for artisans to earn respect today.

They're often regarded in the same way as manual laborers.

Perhaps this has to do with Japan's industrialization, with traditional artisans treated simply as cogs in the production line.

I want to do something about this and change the perception that people have.

Do you find that you get inspired by collaborating with other artisans?

Very much so.

Demand for traditional crafts in Kyoto, Japan, and perhaps even the world, has been shrinking over the past few decades.

I feel it's important to reverse this trend.

These crafts are at the root of human creativity.

Making beauty with our hands is how manufacturing began.

There's been too much division between design, art, fine arts, and crafts.

I want to tear down the barrier between fine arts and traditional crafts.

Some people claim that these crafts don't qualify as fine art because they lack "individuality."

We don't know the artisan's names.

We live in an age where a logo or signature increases the value of a product or brand.

But the day may come when objects without a logo may be considered more aesthetically pleasing.

For instance, the great tea master, Sen-no-rikyu, promoted the values of wabi-sabi and the beauty of rustic simplicity at a time when grandeur was the mainstream.

There's always a counter-culture at work, and that's how aesthetics change.

In order to transcend the boundaries between traditional crafts and art, Hosoo made use of Nishijin textile patterns handed down over generations.

He's working with a university to create a digital archive of some 20,000 patterns, and using it to create new works of art.

I was just admiring the hanging scroll you have on display.

If you look closely, you'll see it's an abstract image of folding fans.

So far, over a span of nine years, we've managed to archive about 14,000 Nishijin textile patterns.

We added contemporary colors to one modified pattern to create this scroll.

You used the archive as a dataset for machine learning to create something new.

...So you've cut out the need for human artisans.

In addition, we asked an AI expert to use the archive to train deep neural networks to generate novel designs in a similar style.

Won't that endanger the jobs of artisans?

The AI provided us with a huge output based on a data set of 50-year-old designs.

But it was up to humans to select which ones to use, then modify them and add color.

So it's not as if AI poses a threat to humans.

It's all about expanding the possibilities in the pursuit of creating beauty.

So with the help of AI, you're innovating and aiming to create more varied forms of expression.

I see.

There are 20 steps in the production of Nishijin textiles.

The first is to sketch out a pattern design.

A separate sketch is given colors.

But the colored sketch is later discarded.

Because the colors would make the design seem outdated to future generations.

Only the design sketches and outlines are passed on, leaving room for future generations to add their own colors.

You mentioned leaving room for creativity.

What effect does that have on the eventual output?

When you only have the sketch to work from, you can't help but think of the anonymous creators whose work you have before you.

They produced so much, then handed you the baton.

It's up to you to create an original work suited to the times, after which you pass on the baton to the next generation.

This, I think, is how tradition is cultivated.

Interesting.

It's not a binary relationship between the past and present, the present and the future.

You're weaving a Mobius loop.

We need to look to the future, but be aware of the possibilities of discovering something new in the past.

So we need to look at both the past and future to create something in the present, that has the potential to evolve.

You've revolutionized my views on Nishijin textiles.

It's not a bad thing-it's almost certainly a very good one!

I always had this belief that the traditions of Nishijin were set in stone.

So rigid that there was no room for new or diverse forms of expression.

But our discussion today made me realize just how far off I was from the truth.

I think the strength of tradition lies in being able to absorb new ideas and evolve.

That's why I'm able to take on new challenges.

Even if something goes wrong, I believe the tradition is strong enough to outlast anything.

We asked Hosoo to write a kanji character that describes his life and his work.

He selected the kanji shin, one of the characters in his name.

It means genuine, the opposite of fake.

But it also means the backbone or core that holds everything together.

I believe that you selected this kanji because you believe in the importance of both.

The times we live in make it difficult to determine what is real and what is fake.

So I find that I'm constantly wondering if we as a society are really going about our lives in an honest and authentic way.

I believe that Japan, its textiles, and traditional crafts have so much to offer.

I want to serve as the thread that links everything together.

I believe it's important to embrace diversity.

Nishijin textiles have a long history, during which its focus has been the pursuit of beauty.

Many varieties of thread are needed to weave the complex structures of our textiles.

But they all settle into the final harmony of the completed work.

The end product changes depending on the light.

It might sparkle, or show a glimpse of metallic threads.

It's beautiful because it's diverse.

The diversity may make it hard to harmonize, but I'd love to see our society be more like Nishijin textiles.